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mathematically perfected economy™ (MPE™)    1  :   the singular integral solution of  1) inflation and deflation,  2) systemic manipulation of the cost or value of money or property, and  3) inherent, artificial multiplication of debt into terminal systemic failure;    2  :  every prospective debtor's right to issue legitimate promises to pay, free of extrinsic manipulation, adulteration, or exploitation of those promises, or the natural opportunity to make good on them;    3  :  our right to certify, to enforce, and to monetize industry and commerce by this one sustaining and truly economic process.

MORPHALLAXIS, January 14, 1979.

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 Post subject: A RESPONSE I RECEIVED
PostPosted: 23 Jan 2009, 11:01 am 
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The following is a response I received to a post by me on another forum advocating the elimination of interest.

Interest is a payment for time. Paying a debt back in 1 year is quite different from paying a debt back in 5 years. in the second case the borrower has had the money 5 times longer than in the first. Interest is the payment for the amount of time one has had the money.

How should one respond to this?

Dave




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 Post subject: Re: A RESPONSE I RECEIVED
PostPosted: 23 Jan 2009, 1:30 pm 
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We're not paying for time at all. The claimant merely asserts that something of value is at stake. But a central banking system merely publishes our promises to pay (which of course we could and would issue ourselves otherwise); and while these obfuscated promises of the debtor cost the central banking system practically nothing whatsoever then, the asserted argument that interest is justified first depends then on a fact that earned/actual wealth is actually at stake. Neither is that true, because they publish our promises to pay at practically no cost whatsoever.

The only reason the currency can be subjected to interest is intervention upon the individual's right to issue their own promise to pay, free of extrinsic manipulation, adulteration, or exploitation of that promise, or the natural opportunity to make good on it.

If I built a $100,000 home with a hundred-year lifespan, and you wanted to buy it from me, I could accept your promise to pay directly from you. Not only is your promise (debt) made no better by a purported central banking system, it is only more improbable that you can repay the resultant obligation subject to this unjustified imposition of interest, as a circulation subject to interest multiplies the sum of debt in proportion to the related circulation, all the while consuming ever more of the circulation in servicing ever more disparate and terminal sums of debt, and all the while therefore leaving ever less of the same circulation to sustain the industry which is obligated to do so.

So, if your promise can be guaranteed (as is only possible under mathematically perfected economy™), I, the real creditor, am paid in full immediately by a promise with integrity, which I can spend immediately to the full measure of full payment for the wealth I have created, because of its inherent 1:1 relationship to the respective currency, as is maintained perpetually, only under mathematically perfected currency™ by eradication of interest in conjunction with an obligatory rate of payment equal to the rate of depreciation or consumption (which are to be understood to be equal). Thus I, the real creditor, who gave up *the only* property for a promise to pay, am not in any kind of need which justifies interest; and in fact, the implementation of interest advocated by this adversarial claimant itself *denies the actual creditor (who gives up property for the promise to pay) of the interest*!

So all the facts of the matter deny their argument. It doesn't even have a veritable premise; and the obfuscation is only imposed by denial of the right to issue our own promises to pay.

This person's whole argument is a simple lie: The pretend creditor simply issues your promise to pay at no cost to themselves, and charges you interest, as you of course would never charge yourself. There is no time factor to be accounted for, because the true creditor is paid in full; and there is no risk even to the real creditor (who their obfuscation denies interest), if and only if interest is eradicated and inflation and deflation are solved by said schedule of payment. All the while yet, this lie purports risk justifies interest. But no risk at all exists but for their obfuscation, because the obfuscation of money costs nothing, because they give up no wealth for the promise, and because the only risk of non-payment introduced is attributable to interest and its inherent, irreversible multiplication of debt in proportion to the vital circulation.

So the purpose of this pathetic, age old lie of usury is obviously, simply to pretend to justify the intended vehicle of exploitation.

Today yet (and this very person probably) we hear cries, "Oh, who would loan us money then if it weren't subject to interest?" No one would; and no one would need to, if you issued your own promises to pay, subject to a system which guaranteed their integrity.

What these people wrongly cry for is their own destruction, under an obfuscation of their very same promise to pay, which inevitably dispossesses them of everything.




mike


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"When the freedom they wished for most was the freedom from responsibility, then Athens ceased to be free, and never was free again."



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 Post subject: Re: A RESPONSE I RECEIVED
PostPosted: 24 Jan 2009, 9:56 am 
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Mike, I have no doubt that your explanation is correct. But why are so many people so easily fooled by the argument that there is a time-value of money?

I think it may be because these same people have a hard time believing that an amount of money paid to them over the course of years will buy as much in other goods and services over that course of years as would the same amount of money paid to them today. They expect the money to buy less in the future. All their life experience tells them that money now is worth more than money later. In our current system, that is indeed the case.

If they would suspend judgment (on the issue of whether money does or should have a time-value) until they allow themselves the opportunity to understand MPE, they would see that MPE solves the problem of money losing buying power over time.




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 Post subject: Re: A RESPONSE I RECEIVED
PostPosted: 24 Jan 2009, 2:47 pm 
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UltimateCynic,

You've well described the vicious circular thinking which leads to nowhere.

You have the many who advocate the system of exploitation because they've somehow grafted themselves to it, usually by a staking of their own future preservation of wealth. Gold bugs. Shorters of any vessel of wealth that can be exploited without production.

The whole time aspect as it is raised and I have answered to will never be surrendered by the worst among us. They'll die, and they'll take us down with them, before they give up or will allow themselves to be held accountable for the purposed lie. After all, they simply raise it to buffalo the easily duped, that there is a good reason to impose interest. They deny us a just form of money to begin their arguments; and at every turn, call each thing what it is not. It's the worst and most fallible of lies; and so it's raised by the least likely to resort to rectitude. You can bang heads with them every day, and you'll never get anywhere. Best to appeal to people with integrity.

In any case, the only reason the value of money declines in the only system they will evaluate is the very interest they insist on; and the only reason we would need to borrow money from others at interest is we are deprived of the right to issue our own promises to pay. They have no answer. The claim is just a retort.




mike


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"When the freedom they wished for most was the freedom from responsibility, then Athens ceased to be free, and never was free again."



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While 12,000 homes a day continue to go into foreclosure, mathematically perfected economy™ would re-finance a $100,000 home with a hundred-year lifespan at the overall rate of $1,000 per year or $83.33 per month. Without costing us anything, we would immediately become as much as 12 times as liquid on present revenue. Transitioning to MPE™ would apply all payments already made against existent debt toward principal. Many of us would be debt free. There would be no housing crisis, no credit crisis. Unlimited funding would immediately be available to sustain all the industry we are capable of.

There is no other solution. Regulation can only temper an inherently terminal process.

If you are not promoting mathematically perfected economy™, then you condemn us to monetary failure.



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