mathematically perfected economy™ (MPE™)    1  :   the singular integral solution of  1) inflation and deflation,  2) systemic manipulation of the cost or value of money or property, and  3) inherent, artificial multiplication of debt into terminal systemic failure;    2  :  every prospective debtor's right to issue legitimate promises to pay, free of extrinsic manipulation, adulteration, or exploitation of those promises, or the natural opportunity to make good on them;    3  :  our right to certify, to enforce, and to monetize industry and commerce by this one sustaining and truly economic process.

MORPHALLAXIS, January 14, 1979.

Mathematically Perfected Economy™ FORUMS, DISCUSSION

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 Post subject: End the Fed said Dr No, Ron Paul, But Still Fixed on GOLD
PostPosted: 19 Dec 2008, 4:46 pm 

Joined: 29 Jan 2008, 6:06 pm
Posts: 731
Gold is beautiful, but the gold & other commodities markets have been cornered beyond the point of return, & are so heavily manipulated that to make a parity or base of an expanding or growing economy monetary system is so risky that is just too pathetic to make it happen. Or, is it made to be that way so, made in order to discourage a population from wanting to get in to it?
You be the judge. PMFPE do not think that currency in circulation needs to have a monetary base, because any commodity is limited; therefore, economic expansion will always be limited to the availability or supply of that commodity.

PFMPE more than ever agree with Dr. No on "End the Fed" idea big time. Thank you the Fed" for totally messing things up & making yourself not needed any longer. The point has been made. The Fed & the IMF & all of the central banking system policies that cannot handle the globally expending economies are not needed any longer. They failed on all counts. The growing global disproportions & poverty a proof. It's time for upgrade in monetary system that is not subject to interest, & the time is now.

PFMPE offer the only solution to this ongoing financial debacle. Those pages are the MPE dish that we are offering on the table for We the People to smell, try & enjoy it all at once, all at the same time.

The Neo-Alchemy of the Federal Reserve: by Dr Ron Paul, also named by his Congress friends - Dr. No.

December 15, 2008 "ICH" -- - As the printing presses for the bailouts run at full speed, those in power are no longer even pretending that the new giveaways will fix our problems. Now that we are used to rewarding failure with taxpayer-funded bailouts, we are being told that this is “just a start,” more funds will inevitably be needed for more industries, and that things would be much worse had we done nothing.

The updated total bailout commitments add up to over $8 trillion now. This translates into a monetary base increase of 75 percent over the last two months. This money does not come from some rainy day fund tucked away in the budget somewhere – it is created from thin air, and devalues every dollar in circulation. Dumping money on an economy, as they have been doing, is not the same as dumping wealth. In fact, it has quite the opposite effect.

One key attribute that gives money value is scarcity. If something that is used as money becomes too plentiful, it loses value. That is how inflation and hyperinflation happens. Giving a central bank the power to create fiat money out of thin air creates the tremendous risk of eventual hyperinflation. Most of the founding fathers did not want a central bank. Having just experienced the hyperinflation of the Continental dollar, they understood the power and the temptations inherent in that type of system. It gives one entity far too much power to control and destabilize the economy.

Our central bankers have had a tremendous amount of hubris over the years, believing that they could actually manage a paper money system in such a way as to replicate the behavior and benefits of a gold standard. In fact, back in 2004 then Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan told me as much. People talk about toxic assets, but the real toxicity in our economy comes from the neo-alchemy practiced by the Federal Reserve System. Just as alchemists of the past frequently poisoned themselves with the lead or mercury they were trying to turn to gold, today’s bankers are poisoning the economy with accelerated fiat money creation.

Throughout the ages, gold has stood the test of time as a consistently reliable medium of exchange, and has frequently been referred to as “God’s money”, as only God can make more of it. Seeking superhuman power over money in the way alchemists did in ancient times caused society to shun them as charlatans. In much the same way, free people today should be sending the message that this power and control over our money is no longer acceptable.

The irony is that even had the ancient practice of alchemy been successful, and gold was suddenly, magically made abundant, alchemists still would have failed to create real wealth. Creating gold from lead would have cheapened its status to that of rhinestones or cubic zirconia. It is unnatural and dangerous for paper to be considered as precious as a precious metal. Our fiat currency system is crumbling and coming to an end, as all fiat currencies eventually do.

Congress should reject the central bank as a failure for its manipulations of money that have brought our economy to its knees. I am hoping that in the 111th Congress my legislation to abolish the Federal Reserve System gains traction so that the central bank can no longer destroy our money.

Comments: Read them all:
I just don't know why these "decent American still talking about US- hyperinflation...

Those people are in Bush Administration and the FED ARE CRIMINALS but they are not stupid..

They know that the MONEY BASE do not come from the thin air, but they print them; AND as soon as these papers have been out they are "valued" by those idiots around the world...

The Hyper-infaltion will only take place in the US when major players around the world stop using the Dollars as Base Currency..

Mr Ron Paul should have known by now that in VieNam a poor peasant will try his best to sell everything he PRODUCES to buy the extra dollars!!!!

Much more for other richer people..

Pham Thanh Chuong | 12.15.08 - 10:46 pm | #

Gravatar May Ron Paul be fully victorious in his efforts to close the central banks and the fiat money system which is playing havoc with all the citizens of this planet.
William Benedict | 12.15.08 - 11:00 pm | #

Gravatar I dont want to see the US economy totally collapse because Australia will soon follow, BUT, is there any other way to stop the waste and corruption?. Even in small things- bank errors favouring the bank 50 times more often than the customer, phone bills that itemise calls you know you never made, being forced into using toll roads you dont want to use and all the parasite middlemen making loads of money off the honest productive toil of others....is it any wonder we are in such a mess?
martin | Homepage | 12.15.08 - 11:23 pm | #

Gravatar What's a toll road??

None where I live; in the sticks.
Made the decision to get away from city living 50 years ago.

Get out while the goings good; you'll never regret it!
Aussie Bushy | 12.15.08 - 11:46 pm | #

Gravatar well friends maybe it is not a bad thing to get red of the paper money.
maybe all these events are pushing us towards a global economy, global goverment with a digital money.
One thing for sure the system that exist now can't be the solution to todays earth problem and certanly not tommorows.
future | 12.15.08 - 11:48 pm | #

Gravatar "maybe all these events are pushing us towards a global economy, global goverment with a digital money."

Or in other words, slavery.
lily | 12.16.08 - 1:43 am | #

Gravatar Obviously he hasn't looked at how gold is mined on this planet.
A lot of gold is mined under slavery conditions.
Something RP should take a look at before calling it good money.

But what can someone expect from a guy who thinks socialism is giving money to bankers.
Anonymous | 12.16.08 - 2:56 am | #

Gravatar Wow, someone who takes the "Austrian" theory of the business cycle seriously! Now, that is rare...

If Paul had a better grasp of economics, he would know that von Hayek was defeated by Sraffa and Kaldor in the 1930s business cycle debates. Both showed the serious flaws in the "theory", with Kaldor being well placed to do so as he was a one-time follower of the "Austrian" school.

And as Kaldor explained, when refuting Friedman's Monetarism, the state does not "print" money, rather it adjusts to the demands of the economy. This means that any attempts to control the money supply by a government will fail -- which it did under Thatcher and Reagan when they tried to implement Friedman's nonsense.

Credit expansion is part of capitalism -- banks seek to make money and so do it. Attempts to stop it (i.e., regulate it) will destroy the banking system -- assuming that they could work, which is doubtful.

for more details...

So, please folks, try to find a more sensible and accurate economic theory -- may I suggest post-Keynesian economic thought?
Anarcho | Homepage | 12.16.08 - 3:33 am | #

Gravatar The best suggestions I've seen are in a simple 48 minute cartoon called, "What is money and where does it come from". (It's on ICH)

To me the whole human problem is largely caused by the practise of usury and creating so-called money purely out of debt.

With this system the banker produces a loan form which the borrower signs. To anyone that has confidence that the loan will be repaid, it's a form of money and the bankers taps a few keys and the amount magically appears in the borrowers account and is convertable to federal reserve promisory notes.

The only thing of value in the whole transaction is the loan agreement and the expectancy that it will be honoured.

The problem for society is that only the principle is created by the loan agreement and not the interest payments. Because all other money in existence has been created the same way, then just like a child's game of musical chairs there has to be a loser who gets trashed otherwise nobody could make the interest payments to the bankers (who are collecting interest on "money" they never had in the first place).

Like any pryamid or ponzi scheme it has to stop when the finite limits (world resources and borrowers) reach the limit.

At this point the confidence in the ability of debtors to repay starts to crash because anyone who can count can see that it's simply impossible for people to repay all the principles and interests on thier obligations. This is called a "credit crisis". The ponzi scheme collapses and the fait currency goes to it's intrinsic value which is Zero. (This happened in Germany in 1924).

Everybody has to start again at this point as trying to reflate the credit bubble can only be done by issueing more of the currency which is pointless as it's going down and the whole problem in the first place was too much credit which has no realistic prospect of ever being repaid.

The only way to momentarily keep it going for a while is through a lack of transparency which means nobody can be sure whose bankrupt and who isn't which is of course what happening right now at the Federal Reserve and why all oversight has been removed.

They are actally refusing to disclose where 7.5 trillion Dollars of new money is going to which just adds to the confusion and uncertainty.

It like a game of musical chairs but the music is a secret.

When they have finished transferring all wealth to themselves then they will drop the corpse and head off into the sunset.

That's your federal Reserve and the inevitable consequence of a nation that allows a privately owned group with no accountability to prey on the world.

Ron Paul is a little late with his proposal to abolish the Fed. Even if you did that you can't stop the train wreck because it's gone way too far.

The damage is already done and they are just mopping up the last of the nation's wealth.

So went the Babylonians, the Egyptians, the Romans. Thier fatal error was to allow the practise of usury. A small wandering group of people that specialised in cheap fairground tricks and other deceptions worked they way in.

By controling the media in one way or another and making sure nobody knew how thier scheme worked (control through education), they were in.

The system has worked for hundreds of years and it has also been a way to meet the demand of commerce for credit which has allowed expansion of industry and imperialism for some. The problem is the private profit nature and lack of transparency inherent in the system and the human tendency to get hooked on the drug greed.
Danny Cunnington | 12.16.08 - 4:07 am | #

Gravatar I took a dump on the economy Mr. Ron Pussy Paul...
Dick Chaney | 12.16.08 - 4:33 am | #

Gravatar Spot in analysis there Danny and right on the money so to speak.

Greed is the bearer of bad tydings and lack of transparency in trastactions leads to theft and deceit.

We need people bailouts not corporate bailouts. Empower the people to survive monitarily and they will build and support the economy not the other way round. Unfortunately Gov's are forgetting the people factor. BTW - K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple Stupid is the best way to do things.
mikki | 12.16.08 - 4:58 am | #

Gravatar To strengthen your argument, you can quote THOMAS JEFFERSON who in 1802 said :
" I believe that banking institions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies.If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporationsthat will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property..."
george forrai | 12.16.08 - 5:22 am | #

Gravatar Tom Paine wrote about the danger of paper money in 1786. Fyi: http://mises.org/story/2942 -- "Money is money, paper is paper", he wrote.

If Ron Paul does seem to have a grasp of what the Fed has done, and continues to do, to 'work' the $US and economy, he fails to acknowlege that the Federal Reserve was imposed on the US by a certain Europe, which by then had had a long history of central bank practices.

The US was the last remaining power of any significance in the Western hemisphere to fall to the realm of European banking.

It's all well and good for RP to recommend the abolishment of the US Fed, but his proposal is at best naive.

There has never been a more powerful means of wealth control and acquisition than via private central banks, whose sole function is to maintain the class distinction and wealth of elites; those same elites from whom political leaders are plucked, ensuring perpetual endorsement of the debt-enslavement game.

Take a peek at the career of Montagu Norman, Governor of the Bank of England, from 1920-1944; that is, during the vital inter world war period.

Through coordinated manipulation of interest rates, and monopoly on credit, central banks comprise a supra-national hyperpower that can make or break economies, change national leadership at whim, provoke world wars and select those who will control world resources.

That's the entity RP recommends we challenge by doing away with one of the team's best players: the US Federal Reserve.
sijepuis | 12.16.08 - 7:27 am | #

Gravatar PS: my comment, above, is not to suggest that abolishing with the Fed is impossible, but to succeed in doing so would require a coordinated, international grass roots effort.

In other words, something along the lines of a worldwide revolution.
sijepuis | 12.16.08 - 7:34 am | #

Gravatar I think otherwise. I think the ruse of a treasury is the big story here.

Taxation is the ruse. Obviously our governors want us to think government money comes from taxes, when it does not.

They print what they need, use phony bookkeeping methods, and tell us they need tax money to balance the books.

Obviously taxes are a way of controlling the population, rather than the grease for government wheels.

I think the joke is on us. Government has always had the capacity to print the money for whatever they want to do.

Each administration has its own pet projects, be it war, roads, healthcare... and the dummy goy outside the inner circle of the Fed - are made to believe our taxes 'balance these books'.

Obviously not.

Har har har har har...
Jack Thomsen | 12.16.08 - 7:35 am | #

Gravatar The idea of a 'gold standard' has no legs at all. IF we were to try that right today, for instance, if Mr Paul was given that power - who controls the gold? Does he somehow get all of the people who own gold to sell it to the central authority? I suspect there would be some considerable screaming if he tried to force them to hand it over at any price. But if the gold of the gold standard is in private hands, then we still have private people controlling the value of our money. What if a few of them with a substantial percentage of the gold got together and tried to blackmail us one way or another, with the threat that they would take all their gold and go home if we didn't agree? What would we do? And what about inflation and growing economies - is the amount of gold going to keep pace with the growing population and value of businesses etc that are born and grown? Not likely.
No - fiat money is the only answer - fiat money controlled by a true democratic government, not by private interests as it is now. Money needs to be a means of exchange with some store of value - NOT a commodity subject to speculation. The rules needed are simple enough in theory, but difficult to understand when the people who control the money for their own greed and wealth also control the press and propaganda, and government and laws.
Thus - Democracy, real democracy, is the only answer. Me, I'm not holding my breath.
siamdave | Homepage | 12.16.08 - 8:43 am | #

Gravatar Banks or bombs -- whatever kills US is good.
Anonymous | 12.16.08 - 9:02 am | #

Gravatar Americans should look over the two step plan to National Reform and Recovery of our money system and support it.

It's designed to...

1. "Direct the Treasury Department to issue U.S. Notes (exactly like Lincoln's Greenbacks interest free notes) to pay off the National debt.

2. Increase the reserve ratio private banks are required to maintain from 10% to 100%, thereby terminating their ability to create money, while simultaneously absorbing the funds created to retire the national debt.

Milton Friedmen, before he passed away, agreed with this solution. It is believed that within only a years time our nation would be able to stabilize it's money and economic system. Once this is done the Federal Reserve will no longer be needed as the authority would return back to the U.S. Treasury Dept. where it Constitutionally belongs.

Let people know that this is the only Constitutional answer to the problem.

Tiger Eye | 12.16.08 - 9:02 am | #

Gravatar At least Ron Paul has the guts to point the finger at the culprit. Those who think he is naive for wanting to challenge these bankers I ask you, what would you do? Someone has to challenge the Fed at some point, and I commend Mr. Paul for having the balls to stand up to these criminals. I do agree, dissolving the Fed is no small task, in fact you are really talking about dissolving an international Banking Cartel. However it's time to talk about that possibility, change starts with awareness.
Quadtron | 12.16.08 - 9:27 am | #

Gravatar You don't need to back currency with gold. Kennedy signed Directive 11110. to allow silver backed bills to be in circulation.

He suggested silver backed because he knew people bought into the belief that money had to be backed by precious medal. The joke was that there was so much silver available in circulation that no "Rothschild" could control the silver market.

But money backed by a precious metal like gold makes money scarce once it becomes privately available as the only legal tender. It encourages hoarding. Gold is old school. It will be abandoned as currency for that reason.
Tiger Eye | 12.16.08 - 9:31 am | #

Gravatar The supposed "bailout" is no more than theft of America's financial future by transferring future contants of the US treasury directly into pockets of multinational corporations. We desperately need a clean sweep of congress to stop current cardboard front men politicians from destroying the sovereignty of our nation.
Twilighttime | 12.16.08 - 9:37 am | #

Gravatar "The supposed "bailout" is no more than theft of America's financial future by transferring future contants of the US treasury directly into pockets of multinational corporations."

Amen. Domestic workers/cooks of rich, fatcat, execs.

Unite and make sure you feed your employers PLENTY of lead ridden or otherwise 'affected' foods. Make them scared to treat you like dirt....
Anonymous | 12.16.08 - 10:02 am | #

Gravatar Quadtron

I voted for Ron Paul.


"financial future by transferring future contants of the US treasury directly into pockets of multinational corporations".

That's Right!

The international "banksters" are raiding our Treasury and our Congress has given them keys to the FED to do it. "Imperial International

We got to begin voting people into office at the lower levels of state government that can be truly trusted but first we got to clean up our laughable election voting system. And it can be done if people want to fight back. Think local while watching the national.
Tiger Eye | 12.16.08 - 10:16 am | #

Gravatar @ sijepuis | 12.16.08 - 7:34 am

Quote: "but to succeed in doing so would require a coordinated, international grass roots effort.

In other words, something along the lines of a worldwide revolution."


If we're going to go that far let's do it up proper and solve all our problem's in one great movement.

Rid the world of the need for money and the wealth disparity of private property Capitalism breeds once and for all.

Establish; http://www.worldsocialism.org

To freely satisfy the needs of all humanity with a sustainable ABUNDANCE long into the future. Abolish wage-slavery and private property opting for genuine democratic 'Common Ownership' (not to be confused with State ownership.) of the world and its productive resources. 'Where each will produce according to their ability and take according to their needs and reasonable wants.
Bill Johnson | Homepage | 12.16.08 - 11:04 am | #

Gravatar Writes Pham Thanh Chuong:

"Mr Ron Paul should have known by now that in Vietnam a poor peasant will try his best to sell everything he PRODUCES to buy the extra dollars!!!!

True for most of the world, and we know who constitutes the majority of the world. They do not reside in Europe or America, or Canada or Australia or New Zealand.
When I labour to buy US dollars, and those dollar lose their value, I have lost part of my labour, in reality, I have been enslaved for that time. For Americans, they receive a wage increase. This is the crux of America's "success", the poor of the world are enslaved by the wealthy. And why do we hanker after the American dollar. Well, we still remember the Vietnam War, or rather The American War or rather The American Wars, all of them, forever present and forever ongoing.

The expression, "you can fool some of the people all of the time or all of the people some of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time," is itself a lie. All Americans are being fooled all of the time. A patriotic American mother is duped into sacrificing her son.
Lies, lies and more filthy lies, but nowhere to turn, so you Americans are doomed to believe. What suckers.
TenthWorlder | 12.16.08 - 12:09 pm | #

Gravatar Give it a rest! It is all hopeless. The Jew private bank named the Federal Reserve Bank has engineered this all. Now, the FED will try to reinflate, which will result in very bad inflation in the coming few years.
Your money will be worth less and less, if you have a job or savings.
America is doomed.
William | 12.16.08 - 1:22 pm | #

Gravatar Irony - the less the dollar should be worth, the more it is climbing in value on the cross rates.

This is not just a monetary crisis.

Most of the nations around the world are going into deficit in order to stimulate their economies, for the US the deficits in spending and trade have been monumental for years and now are becoming astronomical.

So what are we actually looking at?

The US dollar goes up in value as it also declines in value - it is not accidental and it is unprecedented. But it does make sense even though it is a contradiction.

What do the "jewish banker" conspirators make of this? It remains a mystery just another feature of their, imagined, grand conspiracy. Inexplicable except as another element of nefarious schemes to conquer the world.

However, there is a much more useful way to approach things. The US empire is, and has been since its inception, rested on financial capital. It cares not one jot the religion, ancestry, or family connections of those that control segments of this capital.

By making the US dollar the currency of "free world" trade during the Cold War, the collapse of the USSR made it the world currency of trade.

The contradiction is that when this currency was backed by productive strength of the US economy, when the dollar was worth a dollar, it mattered very little. I suggest that getting off the gold standard made more sense when a point was reached where the dollar had established itself as equal in credit and as good as gold. I suspect that the US dollar probably exceeded, in credit value, above its gold securities (a relative shortage of US dollars in trade).

Whatever the origin the shifting towards credit value in currencies valuation, the effect is different between the Empire homeland and all the rest.

For the US, something magically is produced, its credit rests not just on its economy, but also its position of geo-political dominance. The US dollar is not just the credit of the US economy but the accumulated credit of it as an Empire owner.

The magic is simple; reduce costs. That is reduce the capital invested in domestic production, it does not matter whether that means exporting jobs, contracting out, or simple capital migration -- the end effect is that the credit in dollar trade remains strong as the actual national credit declines.

Wealth from cheapening the costs of production by exporting it, appears as a huge increase of dollar wealth, increasing the trading worth of the dollar at the same time its productive value falls.

As capital is pulled out of production, that portion of value is transferred to the financial sector. But more importantly the trading value of the dollar increases because the financial sector itself has expanded.

As the US dollar becomes more and more over valued, the more international credit it accumulates, and the more value is poured into the US dollar every time it is used in trade.

The less the dollar is actually worth, the more value it attracts from the rest of the world because of its monopolistic position. It appears to be worth more as it is worth less and less.

Now we have reached absurdity levels, the US dollar is flooding out, but also valuing up. It is drawing in the value produced across the world and is being sprinkled like rain on the heads of the richest American interests (a party before the economic firing squad).
Greg Schofield, Perth AUS | 12.16.08 - 2:44 pm | #

Gravatar As the United States economy heads for depression then We would anticipate that those CongressMonkey to avoid the public unrest will be soon riding to their bunker under R-F-K Stadium.

Nathan | Homepage | 12.16.08 - 3:49 pm | #

Gravatar The magicians of the U.S. government are attempting to reduce the wealth of tens of millions of people to zero, and throwing hundreds of millions of yet unborn people into slavery.

I were living in America, this is about the time I would choose to leave that place, once and for all.

... . ...
tsk_tsk | 12.16.08 - 4:01 pm | #

Gravatar The answer is the same as it was in 1774 - violent revolution of a completely corrupt bunch of tyrants calling themselves a government. Unfortunately, Americans are mostly lame-[bad word] pussies fed on lies and cheeseburgers made from some really scary crap.

Get ready to die.
Bluto | 12.16.08 - 6:37 pm | #

Gravatar Coming soon to your country......

One World Leader
One World Government
One World Religion
One World Currency that is called in the book of Revelation as "The Mark of the Beast(the coming world system).

No man can buy,sell or trade without this implanted computer chip embedded in his right hand or forhead. Ready or not 666 is coming.
Eagleman | 12.16.08 - 8:05 pm | #

Gravatar America's leaders have failed to serve its own citizens.

America is going down the toilet. End of story.
anonymous | 12.16.08 - 8:08 pm | #

Gravatar Tiger Eye seems to be the only one who gets it. And I'd agree that a gold-only monetary system would be expanded to re-include copper, nickel and silver. Heck, a cordwood backed currency would be better than what we have now. Heavens only knows where we'd get all that gold anyways. We sort of dug most of it up and traded it off to the Fed already.
Oyate | Homepage | 12.16.08 - 8:23 pm | #

Gravatar "One key attribute that gives money value is scarcity." Quothe Dr. Paul. This is a truly perverted view of money.

How about "one key element that gives food value is scarcity." How does that sound?

Or "One key element that give water value is scarcity." Like that? Sound good?

Money is a public utility, a social necessity, an enabler of commerce and exchange. It is a measure of value. If it is scarce, commerce slows down. The scarcity of money is called "deflation". The chronic condition of the 19th Century when the gold standard ruled was scarcity, poverty, social unrest, violence, and the triumph of the wealthy elite who owned all the gold.

Dr. Paul's idea about the inflation of the Revolutionary "continental" is also wrong. He doesn't know his history. The continental financed the Revolution. The continental made the Revolution possible. It became inflated "not worth a continental" because the British shipped over boatloads of counterfeit continentals, boatloads, and destroyed the currency. It was not the Continental Congress that destroyed the continental. Check it out, Dr. Paul, and keep in mind that before the British destroyed it, the continental allowed the Americans to pretty uch win the war.

That's so nice, the story of precious metals serving so well as currency over the years. Did you ever hear of "tally sticks", Dr. Paul, plain old sticks used as money in England? You're ot stupid, but you are an ideologue, and that often closes off one's mind. The fact is thee is ot enough gold to fund the economy. If we were to go backwards to a gold standard, the deflation we are experiencing today would be minor in comparison.

"God's money" has always been championed by the wealthy elite. And if you are so confident that modern scientific alchemy could not create gold, you may just be naive. A return to the gold standard would necessitate the creation of more gold than God made, or at least the massive dilution of the gold God made.

So what's the point? Fake gold. Fake paper money. What's the difference? Paper money is a workable currency if it were a public monetary system, transparent and accountable, as the private system is not.

Of course, this requires some faith in government by the people and for the people. If we don't have an active and concerned citizenry to oversee the public monetary authority, we've got nothing. We might as well go hang ourselves and be done with it.

Paper money and government ae not the problem. You are. People like you. As good a man as you are, you're an ideologue and you're ignorant and your solution would condemn the people of this country to a hell on earth.
cruxpuppy | 12.16.08 - 8:34 pm | #

Gravatar @ Tiger Eye

loved your posts.

the thing that i have wondered since i was 6 is why does money have to be rare? why cant there be enough for everyone?

i said back then and i still say now the only reason there is a shortage of paper is to divide the people into irrelevant groups. divide and rule.

as i read in a previous post its like an airline not giving you a seat on their plane because of a shortage of tickets. its completely ridiculous.

what about local currencies? i know they have been tried before with some success. why cant communities and towns organise their own currencies and remove the power from these bloated parasitic psychopaths?
cu culainn | 12.17.08 - 12:55 am | #

Gravatar "The irony is"...that the printing presses have been going for a LONG time and it hasn't depressed the value of the dollar more than it has...!

Paul's argument doesn't fit with reality.

Pluto wasn't discovered by direct observation - there was something else that revealed its existence. - Could it be that although so much dollars are printed, it doesn't end up in the hands of "the many" but in the hands of the few? So that even MORE dollars are taken out of circulation than are printed, thus pushing up the value? UNTIL they are released...which is when the value will in fact drop? - I do not know.

Greg in Australia above writes his view, but I don't see the logic...
Follow the Facts | 12.17.08 - 8:04 am | #

Gravatar Golly, the last time I checked, if I, a member of the private sector, as is the FED, were to print off 8 trillion dollars, just to give to my friends, it would be classified as counterfeit. It has the same effect too. The printed money is worthless, and now so is mine.
elpapa | 12.17.08 - 11:30 am | #

Gravatar Follow the Facts | 12.17.08 - 8:04 am |

Separate two things - the trading value of the dollar and a more abstrract notion of value -- the value as a national currency reflecting the actual production of a country.

OK not hard to see that one goes up as the other may decline or be stable.

Add in one other ingrediant, the role of the US empire where the trading value is means to transfer value -- that is from the world to the US.

But that is not quite it either, because in another sense US credit is good depsite its domestic production. It is good because it represents the transferred credit of the whole planet into the US dollar.

Its domestic credit may be low (trading deficits, debts, not producing enough to keep ahead of spending) but its internatiuonal credit, made up of the value pouring into the dollar -- well that is just fine - better than gold.

Now add in an Empire in its declining years, one that overspends on force, blood, and presents for the rich. To the point that the banks create huge unpayable debts, drive up property prices and loan out the money to pay for it.

Add to it printing money to through at all the problems, and it all works fine because the world is paying for the US excess, the world is being sucked into the vortex through the dollar.

Until the point is reached, and it can't be long off, when the world cuts its losses and trades in other currencies, or even gold credits, cutting the US dollar off at the knees.

It has to happen, because in an odd sort of distorted socialism of the wealthy, the money being rained upon them is like some gigantic pension to keep them wealthy. It is like the Roman Senate taxing the world just to enjoy a single uninterrupted orgy
Greg Schofield | 12.17.08 - 6:06 pm | #

Gravatar Anyone who is interested in the past as a means to see the future only has to peer into the life of President Andrew Jackson...and you will see where we might be headed.

Jackson was the last U.S. President to have been a veteran of the American Revolution, and the second President to have been a prisoner of war (Washington was captured by the French in the French and Indian War).

The Second Bank of the United States was authorized for a twenty year period during James Madison's tenure in 1816. As President, Jackson worked to rescind the bank's federal charter. In Jackson's veto message (written by George Bancroft), the bank needed to be abolished because:

* It concentrated the nation's financial strength in a single institution.
* It exposed the government to control by foreign interests.
* It served mainly to make the rich richer.
* It exercised too much control over members of Congress.
* It favored northeastern states over southern and western states.

Following Jefferson, Jackson supported an "agricultural republic" and felt the Bank improved the fortunes of an "elite circle" of commercial and industrial entrepreneurs at the expense of farmers and laborers. After a titanic struggle, Jackson succeeded in destroying the Bank by vetoing its 1832 re-charter by Congress and by withdrawing U.S. funds in 1833.
1833 Democratic cartoon shows Jackson destroying the devil's Bank

The bank's money-lending functions were taken over by the legions of local and state banks that sprang up. This fed an expansion of credit and speculation. At first, as Jackson withdrew money from the Bank to invest it in other banks, land sales, canal construction, cotton production, and manufacturing boomed.[24] However, due to the practice of banks issuing paper banknotes that were not backed by gold or silver reserves, there was soon rapid inflation and mounting state debts.[25] Then, in 1836, Jackson issued the Specie Circular, which required buyers of government lands to pay in "specie" (gold or silver coins). The result was a great demand for specie, which many banks did not have enough of to exchange for their notes. These banks collapsed.[24] This was a direct cause of the Panic of 1837, which threw the national economy into a deep depression. It took years for the economy to recover from the damage.

Only through careful policy change and oversight of a secure financial system can we revert back to the standard of a precious metal system.
T. Levinsky | Homepage | 12.19.08 - 12:50 pm | #

Gravatar thanks, trying to understand a personal solution so i can open the doors to the ArtBankofAmerica.com.....what a fun new year it will be...
Robert Schueler | Homepage | 12.19.08 - 1:40 pm | #

Gravatar The idiocracy doth speakth. Now either they're elitists pretending to be "one of us" or elitists pretending to be cultured and educated.
Thomas Jefferson | 12.19.08 - 2:20 pm | #

Gravatar I read all those comments with a smirk on my face. One can easily see the effect of years of brainwashing practiced by the real owners of this country. Well, you guys got what you deserved, real hard. You got depression that might dwarf the one that happened in the 30-ties. Anyone that says that fiat currency is the solution deserves to live under the bridge. You have learned nothing!
There was never fiat money system that survived any significant period of time. It never will, because it introduces the ability to abuse system by those that control money supply.
Gold as money from the historical perspective was the best monetary system ever devised. It was for two reasons.
Let me quote two remarkable historical instances here to prove my point...
Byzantine Empire survived long after Roman Empire turned into dust precisely because their monetary system was based on gold and their coins were the only currency that held PURCHASING POWER unchanged for CENTURIES. Byzantinian gold dinar was never debauched. This was the main reason why they did survive for so long.
The fastest economic growth in United States of America occurred at the time where monetary system most closely resembled classical gold monetary standard. This happened during second half of the 19-teen century up until 1913 when Federal Reserve was established.
This closely correlates with fastest growth in standard of living in the history of the US as well as true freedom of its citizens. Yes, there were crashes at that time as well, but they were SHORT LIVED. Monetary expansion was limited under true gold standard, this is why creating any financial bubble was severely restricted. Also, what is most important, there was no CENTRAL BANK then, yet the whole system functioned extremely efficient. That system severely impaired the ability to steal and cheat by government. It was because they had to TAX people to get more money to spend. Today, they steal without asking by simply expanding credit and borrowing more from treasury. EIGHT TRILLION anyone? This is because there is NO CONTROL over money by the public.

The main reason why ANY fiat system will collapse is because temptation to cheat and steal is too big and there are no any natural restrictions to control that process.
What we are witnessing now is the final collapse of world wide monetary system based on fiat money principle.
Ted Nabrdalik | 12.19.08 - 2:39 pm | #

Gravatar If any of you think there will be no consequences to 'abolishing' the FED, think Lincoln and Kennedy.

You can't just announce to your masters that you no longer wish to be their slaves.

If America rises up against 'them' then the guns of another nation which is under 'their' control shall be used against America. Be it a China, a Russia, or 'al qaeda' - the army without soil. War will be raged until the bravest of all Americans will be gnashing their teeth in cries of surrender.

England fell prey, Spain, Portugal, Russia, Germany, Austria, the Low Countries, and despite the warnings of some of your most learned founders - America too is falling to these men - and it all came from within. No external armies were required to destroy you...as you always thought were the only way you could fall.

In the words of Cicero:

"No treachery is more insidious than that which is hidden under a pretence of loyalty, or under the name of kinship. For against an open adversary you could be on your guard and thus easily avoid him; but this hidden evil, within the house and family, not only arises before you are aware but even overwhelms you before you can catch sight of it and investigate it."

Know your enemy.
Baron von Lufthoven | 12.19.08 - 2:57 pm | #

Gravatar The ignorance displayed in most of these comments is disappointing! Ron Paul has been trying to warn people about our current economic situation for over a decade. He was laughed at and ridiculed, now everything he predicted is coming true and most of the morons on this page still think they know better than he does. Some of the crap posted doesn't even make sense. It's a sad reflection of the arrogance and ignorance endemic in todays society.
ZRowe | 12.19.08 - 3:05 pm | #


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 Post subject: Re: End the Fed said Dr No, Ron Paul, But Still Fixed on GOLD
PostPosted: 26 Dec 2008, 4:51 pm 
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Fixed on gold is his outer spiel. What he really wants is more "competing" "banks" issuing money — "banks" of Austrian "economists," likewise meant to take tremendous unearned profit. Although Mr. Paul has refused forever to answer to mathematically perfected economy™, I'd like to think he represents more than a smoke screen of rectification, meant to insert further banks into the imposed system. The nature of what he calls "banks" however can produce no other effect than multiplication of debt. So the only convincing gesture he can make (to restore the possibility of integrity) is to engage in discussion of the only plausible solution.

Is that too much to ask? Evidently so.

Therefore... Mr. Paul's appeal to dissolve the existing set of banks for another which can only prove the same consequence, stinks to high heaven.



"When the freedom they wished for most was the freedom from responsibility, then Athens ceased to be free, and never was free again."

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While 12,000 homes a day continue to go into foreclosure, mathematically perfected economy™ would re-finance a $100,000 home with a hundred-year lifespan at the overall rate of $1,000 per year or $83.33 per month. Without costing us anything, we would immediately become as much as 12 times as liquid on present revenue. Transitioning to MPE™ would apply all payments already made against existent debt toward principal. Many of us would be debt free. There would be no housing crisis, no credit crisis. Unlimited funding would immediately be available to sustain all the industry we are capable of.

There is no other solution. Regulation can only temper an inherently terminal process.

If you are not promoting mathematically perfected economy™, then you condemn us to monetary failure.

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